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Topic: Famous Folk talk Shakespeare Authorship Post Reply | Post New Topic
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 11 June 2024 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
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Posted: 11 June 2024 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

You are/were a de Vere man, right, JB?
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 11 June 2024 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Reading along these lines, I came upon this comparison of the two “camps”:

Oxfordians -The oxfordian theory of authorship suggest that the plays attributed to William Shakespeare were actually written by Edward De Vere the earl of oxford.

Stratfordian- A person who,in the controversy over who wrote William Shakespeare's plays holds that it was shakespeare himself.

Here we see why the Authorship Question has always had difficulty finding purchase in even the most logical minds: the Stratfordians lay claim to the name “Shakespeare” and present it matter-of-factly as the name of the man from Stratford. But that’s not really true. The Stratford man used many variants of his name (common in those days before spelling was formalized) the majority of which seem to indicate the name was pronounced “shax sper”, conventional in Warwickshire at the time.

This little subterfuge creates immediate confusion in the minds of those only casually familiar with the Works. “Who wrote Shakespeare?” Well, obviously this fellow from Stratford with the same name.

Only…..

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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132580
Posted: 11 June 2024 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

You are/were a de Vere man, right, JB?

For decades, now.

I was in my late teens when I first learned of the Authorship Question, which made immediate sense to me. Twenty years later I was introduced to the De Vere hypothesis, and was totally convinced.

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Steven Brake
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Joined: 01 January 2016
Posts: 638
Posted: 11 June 2024 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

JB wrote: the Stratford man used many variants of his name (common in those days before spelling was formalized) 

SB replied: True, and one of those variants was Shakespeare - this was the spelling used in the patent issued by King James VI and I confirming the creation of The King's Men, formerly The Lord Chamberlain's Men.

Among the people named in the patent are Richard Burbage, John Heminges and Henry Condell.

All three were named in the will of William Shakespeare who died in Stratford Upon Avon in 1616.

The latter two - Burbage himself dying in 1619 - arrange for the publication of the First Folio in 1623.

The notion that De Vere used the pseudonym "Shakespeare" - a claim for which there is no evidence, and a requirement for which there was no need - and that by sheer bad luck it got mixed up with "Shakspere" from Stratford-Upon-Avon, who was thereafter incorrectly assumed to be the author, simply doesn't work.
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John Byrne

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Posted: 11 June 2024 at 5:17pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

The Lord Chamberlain’s men maintained by the De Vere family….
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 11 June 2024 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

It seems that the weight of evidence lies on the side of DeVere. An awful lot has to be assumed or hand-waved away to make Shakespeare (the man) into Shakespeare the playwright.
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132580
Posted: 11 June 2024 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Incidentally, I was struck by the comment from Malcolm X. That was something that had not occurred to me.

(Incidentally.2: Stratfordians have long made a point about the 46th Psalm. The King James translation was done when the Stratford Man was 46 years old. The 46th word of the psalm is “shake” and, counting backwards, the 46th word is “spear”. Shakespeare signing his work? A tribute from a fellow writer? Coincidence?)

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Jason Ladwig
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Joined: 29 April 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 202
Posted: 11 June 2024 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Knowing nothing other than that there is debate about the man or persons who should take credit; in the opinion of this group, what is the most objective book/source out there on this topic? 

Something a novice might take up to get a sense of the various arguments to be made. Assuming that an objective review exists. 
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132580
Posted: 11 June 2024 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I recommend SHAKESPEARE’S UNORTHODOX BIOGRAPHY by Diana Price. She backs no particular horse in this race, but she thoroughly shreds the Stratford Man.
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Jason Ladwig
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Joined: 29 April 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 202
Posted: 11 June 2024 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Thanks! Something new to read. 
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Steven Brake
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Joined: 01 January 2016
Posts: 638
Posted: 11 June 2024 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

JB wrote: The Lord Chamberlain’s men maintained by the De Vere family….

SB replied: The Lord Chamberlain's Men were founded under the patronage of Henry Carey, 1st Baron Hunsdon. 

Given the nature of aristocratic society, I'm assuming he would have had some degree of connection to De Vere - but is it really fair to say that the Lord Chamberlain's Men were "maintained" by the De Vere family? 

Or is there a stronger and more direct relationship between the Lord Chamberlain's Men and the De Veres?
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