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Topic: Captain Marvel two people or one? Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
Posted: 25 November 2017 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

...the very best rants always come from Brian!
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Marc M. Woolman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 April 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 2096
Posted: 25 November 2017 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Loved every word of that rant.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3008
Posted: 25 November 2017 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The ambiguity in the CC Beck and Otto Binder comics is complex and engaging, the exploration of identity worthy of Jorge Luis Borges. Not bad for children's entertainment.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2292
Posted: 26 November 2017 at 2:32am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

"Is Captain Marvel two people or one?"

Yes!

Edited by Eric Jansen on 26 November 2017 at 2:33am
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17671
Posted: 26 November 2017 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

What Brian said...
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17671
Posted: 26 November 2017 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Oh, and I know I've said before that I enjoyed some of what Jerry Ordway did
with Captain Marvel.

"Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself; I am large, I contain
multitudes."
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Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355
Posted: 27 November 2017 at 7:02am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Jerry Ordway

Captain Forest Gump
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132292
Posted: 27 November 2017 at 7:18am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Gail Simone recently indulged her inner troll on FB by putting forth the very clear, obvious fact that Cyclops has heat vision. There were lots and lots of panels to back her up. Her fanbase was more than delighted to pitch in. Here's Scott setting the grass on fire. Here's Scott melting the ice off Warren's wing. Here's Scott lighting the frickin' candles on a birthday cake. What fun! Haha! Whatta laugh on all the anal-retentives out there who think any of this stuff matters! It's all been gotten wrong so often that we can form entire schools of debate on the matter, with tons of evidence to back up the "wrong" argument as readily as the "right" one. Pfah! As if right or wrong mattered to anyone in comics! Haha! That Gail! What. A. Card.

••

One of my least favorite things about some fans is when they seek out one or two instance of a character's powers being used incorrectly to "prove" that's how the powers actually work.

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Ted Downum
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2371
Posted: 27 November 2017 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Brian Hague: "When did we get so comfortable with looking down on these characters?"

*****

I'm not sure if I wish I knew the answer to that question, Brian, or if I'm happier not knowing.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132292
Posted: 27 November 2017 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

It starts not at a specific date ("Back in '73....") but at an age, the age at which addicted fanboys begin to realize they have aged out of the ideal target audience, but remained in deep denial.

When I started in The Biz, the bulk of the audience was still kids. I saw them at cons. Ten, eleven, twelve years old. Often accompanied by a parent or profoundly bored older brother. And in those groups of kids, enthusiasm ran high. Questions asked were along the lines of "Who's stronger, the Thing or the Hulk?" Questions about storylines. About how I did my job.

But, year by year, the questions change. I'd sign a book and find myself being asked "Will this be worth more, now?" (Usually I'd say no, somebody wrote on it.) Then there were questions about sales, sell-thru, page rates. Was I "jealous" that Todd McFarlane made more than me?

All questions that should be of no concern to a true fan: a READER.

But I was watching the fans get older, too. Twenty-somethings started to replace the kids. And such kids as remained began to be more and more hollow-eyed zombies stumbling from table to table, bags of comics clutched to their chest, seeking to "score".

The older ones kept getting older. Soon, the tides of fandom washing (I wish!) by my table started to look like the PARENTS of those bored older brothers of yore. And more and more their tone became disparaging. They sounded like drug addicts who could "quit and time."

But didn't.

Oh, don't get me wrong! There were still moments. Joyous flashes, even among the older fans, of the sheer love of the form that had brought me in all those years ago. But around those, the glum miasma that eventually drove me away from cons altogether.

(One last note: if you are offended by what I have written here, before you race off to declare "Byrne hates the fans!", pause a moment to consider that your offense might spring from recognizing yourself in my words.)

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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
Posted: 27 November 2017 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

When I started in The Biz, the bulk of the audience was still kids. I saw them at cons. Ten, eleven, twelve years old. Often accompanied by a parent or profoundly bored older brother. And in those groups of kids, enthusiasm ran high. Questions asked were along the lines of "Who's stronger, the Thing or the Hulk?" Questions about storylines. About how I did my job.

***

These are the conversations I love having at comic cons.

True, I probably get on people's nerves. From me, it's the likes of "Could Juggernaut beat Destroyer?" or "Would Dormammu's magic work against Galactus?" I also ask questions such as, "Do you think this crossover would work?"

When I've asked such things, the enthusiasm from comic professionals has been high. They are silly fanboy questions, I know, but my enthusiasm is high (and when is Marvel going to give me Juggernaut VS Destroyer?). But I am sure they prefer it to questions about page rates, the value of a comic, etc.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132292
Posted: 27 November 2017 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Robbie, round these parts "fanboy" is used in its original form, to mean someone who is too over-the-top for even the most hardcore fans.
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