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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

In another topic about Clark Kent's glasses and the Master Mesmerist of Metropolis, we discussed Mopee stories (such as Clark using his Kryptonian glasses to hypnotize others to see him frailer and weaker than Superman, or Bruce Wayne’s older brother Thomas or Jor-El and Lara still alive but floating through space in suspended animation.)

Mopee was a character in The Flash #167 who claimed that he was responsible for Barry Allen becoming the Flash. The story was promptly forgotten and written off.

A lot of these type of stories appeared in Bob Haney's "Brave and the Bold" stories... occurrences and characters that were used for the expedience of the story and then dumped.

If you're not beholden to continuity, these probably don't mean anything to you. But I always saw these and twitched really hard... I think others have too.

So what are some of these stories or events that you liked - or hated? Some of mine are...

Green Arrow using telepathy to communicate with Aquaman's pet octopus, Topo.

Ben Grimm with super breath.

Wonder Woman's Amazon Guardian Angel.

And arguably my favorite... the Captain America story with this dialogue spreading over two pages...
"Only one of us is going to walk away from this fight..."
"...And it won't be me!"

What are your favorites?

Incidentally, some writer (I don't recall who) once postulated that all these "imps" were associated - Mr. Mxyzptlk, Bat-Mite, Mopee, Kwsp, Zook, etc. A silly idea... but I would have loved to see Mr. Byrne's take on this (as his Generations' treatment of Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite was incredible.)
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John Byrne

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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

And arguably my favorite... the Captain America story with this dialogue spreading over two pages...

"Only one of us is going to walk away from this fight..."

"...And it won't be me!"

•••

How does that fit the model you've set for this thread? The others are silly, even stupid stories. That's just a mistake.

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Rick Senger
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Your post reminded me of an old Superman story that gave Superman two powers I don't believe were ever revisited (thank goodness)










Edited by Rick Senger on 07 December 2017 at 11:53am
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Would the change of Wonder Girl being Wonder Woman as a girl into a wholly separate person, ala Donna, count as a "Mopee"? I recall this happened when the writer of TEEN TITANS (I believe it was Bob Haney) thought Wonder Girl was a separate character because of the stories and covers where both Wonder Woman and Wonder Girl seemed to coexist. 
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Many would place the Sub-Mariner's rarely used aquatic abilities in this
category, but not I!

IMPERIUS REX!
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

And arguably my favorite... the Captain America story with this dialogue
spreading over two pages…

"Only one of us is going to walk away from this fight..."

"...And it won't be me!"

•••

How does that fit the model you've set for this thread? The others are silly,
even stupid stories. That's just a mistake.

•••

Not realizing it was a mistake, I would have read that as a hero bravely
heading into battle knowing he has no chance of winning.

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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

No, that's one of those bloopers that Stan Lee was famous for making, and then jokingly apologizing for in the Soapbox(same with the Hulk's alter ego being 'Bob' Banner. Unfortunately, he's been stuck with 'Robert Bruce Banner' as a result ever since).
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

About the "Robert Bruce Banner" thing, when did that become cannon? I don't think it was during Stan's era. If a later writer decided to make the mistake officially part of Banner's name, I wonder if that would make Peter Parker actually "Peter Palmer Parker,"and Spider-Man would be "Spider-Super-Man"? After all, both mistakes of "Peter Palmer" and calling Spider-Man "Super-Man" in the text happened in those early issues.
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Karl Wiebe
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I hated seeing Peter Palmer Parker's eyeballs on his mask at the dramatic realization in Amazing Fantasy #15—that always seemed like a major swing and a miss to me.  I like "white" eyes only for Batman, Green Lantern... and especially Spider-Man!




Edited by Karl Wiebe on 07 December 2017 at 2:54pm
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Roberto Melendrez
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

The whole "Superman's 'S' means hope" thing- also Superman sees people's "Auras". 

Both drive me bonkers. Hell, I can accept the Sword of Superman before I'll accept that nonsense- and the Sword of Superman is a Mopee if you ever saw one.  Not sure if the "Hope" thing counts as a mopee since it's probably still in continuity but I sure wish it wasn't. 




Edited by Roberto Melendrez on 07 December 2017 at 5:32pm
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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

'The Sword of Superman' thing is one of many examples of the kind of thing I criticized Elliot Maggin for upthread. Overwrought, existential-metaphysical-'I just took a bong hit and got a KEWL idea' claptrap.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

 Karl Wiebe wrote:
I hated seeing Peter Palmer Parker's eyeballs on his mask at the dramatic realization in Amazing Fantasy #15—that always seemed like a major swing and a miss to me.


Really?  I think it's an absolutely brilliant move by Ditko to underscore the absolute shock and horror that Spider-Man is feeling in that moment.  It requires suspension of disbelief that we can for that one moment see through his eye coverings, but since that is the pivotal emotional moment in the story (and arguably, in Spider-Man's career) it is worth doing.  Ditko is the one who made up the rules about Spider-Man's mask.  He's allowed to break them if he feels the situation is dramatically warranted. 


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 07 December 2017 at 4:31pm
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I'm glad this didn't stick.
After a couple of issues the magnets just disappeared.


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Brian O'Neill
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

"Dear Cap, Shut up about Bucky, already. Signed, The World".
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Roberto Melendrez
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Cap has only been in the modern era "around 5 years" (in Marvel time) and at the point captured in those panels he was just recently freed from being frozen all those years. Makes sense that he grieves his partner and close friend. As a reader, Cap's grief for Bucky added pathos to his story and emphasized the cost that came with being Captain America.  It helps define his character.

No offence or disrespect meant to anyone who diasagrees but I think it's time to stop reading Cap' when references to Bucky become annoying.


Edited by Roberto Melendrez on 07 December 2017 at 5:42pm
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John Byrne

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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

No offence or disrespect meant to anyone who diasagrees but I think it's time to stop reading Cap' when references to Bucky become annoying.

•••

And time to stop working on Cap when bringing Bucky back starts to sound like a good idea.

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Roberto Melendrez
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply


And time to stop working on Cap when bringing Bucky back starts to sound like a good idea.

Yup!


Edited by Roberto Melendrez on 07 December 2017 at 5:58pm
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

 Roberto Melendrez wrote:
...Cap has only been in the modern era "around 5 years" (in Marvel time) and at the point captured in those panels he was just recently freed from being frozen all those years...


Exactly! That page above is from issue 6, only two issues after Captain America was thawed out. We're talking weeks later, or months, at most, in story time.


Edited by Matt Hawes on 07 December 2017 at 6:18pm
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

On the subject of Captain America's magnetic shield:

LINK.


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Doug Centers
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Yes Matt, I cringed when I first saw that in the movie. 
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Karl Wiebe
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Posted: 07 December 2017 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Karl Wiebe wrote:
I hated seeing Peter Palmer Parker's eyeballs on his mask at the dramatic realization in Amazing Fantasy #15—that always seemed like a major swing and a miss to me.

Jason Czeskleba wrote:
Really?  I think it's an absolutely brilliant move by Ditko to underscore the absolute shock and horror that Spider-Man is feeling in that moment.  It requires suspension of disbelief that we can for that one moment see through his eye coverings, but since that is the pivotal emotional moment in the story (and arguably, in Spider-Man's career) it is worth doing.  Ditko is the one who made up the rules about Spider-Man's mask.  He's allowed to break them if he feels the situation is dramatically warranted.

------------------------------------
No argument here and I can totally respect that.  I agree with everything you said.  For some reason, I just think it looks hokey and pulled me out of the story.  Maybe because I read it years later and in my mind already had a picture in my mind of 1980s Spider-Man.  

I don't think it's a 'mistake' in that regard—just that it was an artistic direction that I didn't really like. 
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 08 December 2017 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Just to clarify: A "Mopee" isn't about mistakes, right? I was thinking it's more about an ill-conceived story that was later ignored in the continuity of a series.



Edited by Matt Hawes on 08 December 2017 at 11:16am
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 08 December 2017 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

Daredevil used to have a bunch of delicate gadgets in his billy club, including a microphone, smoke screen emitter, etc.  that seemed likely to break each time he threw it at somebody.  I have a memory that Stan said he was influenced by all Bond's gadgets in the burgeoning James Bond franchise but eventually realized that DD was better with less.  I think they also de-emphasized this, which was fine with me.

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Eric Sofer
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Posted: 08 December 2017 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Matt H. - yup. That's exactly what a Mopee is, and as Mr. Byrne noted, I was entirely wrong with my Captain America quote. Um... oops?

It occurs to me that a lot of recent stories that I've read about (I don't much collect any more) are either Mopees, or are desperately desired to be Mopees by a significant number of readers. We've gone so far away from on-model characterizations that few writers are getting that what they're doing is despised. Kinda sad, really... maybe I should do a topic called, "What stories SHOULD be Mopees?" I'll bet that Spider-Man Clone Sage or Superman revoking his American citizenship would be high on that list...
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Adam Schulman
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Posted: 08 December 2017 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Spider-Man had JUST been created when the panel with the "eyes" appeared. Hardly a "Mopee." 

I liked some of Elliot S! Maggin's Superman stories but "The Sword of Superman" was and is not among them. 

SUPERMAN/BATMAN had lots of non-canonical stories. The one I hated most was the idea that Jor-El contacted Thomas Wayne before he sent baby Kal-El to Earth and this convinced him that Earth was the right place to send the baby. Not sure "Mopee" can be applied to stories which are clearly non-canonical, but man, what a dumbass idea. 
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