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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4721
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| Posted: 07 January 2018 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 1
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Many responses here have hit the nail right on the head! Fanboy writers and their followers have been responsible for poorly received, unsalvageable characters.
Part of why I've enjoyed following JB's career is that he's taken characters many found lame, awful... laughable even... and has reinvigorated them.... found ways to write fun, compelling stories with them.
-C!
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4829
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| Posted: 07 January 2018 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 2
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Don't even get me started on the treatment of Hank Pym.
But even when he's portrayed at his worst he's still an interesting and usable character.
I think the only characters that are really hard to salvage are characters who are representative of the time they were created and show how much society has changed since then.
For instance, It's hard to take a character like Mahkizmo or Firebrand who would need to be overhauled to be taken seriously or characters like the Red Guardian who represents a bygone political era.
I'm sure they could all be re-worked for a new audience, but would they still be the same characters?
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William Costello
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 738
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| Posted: 08 January 2018 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 3
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Man Thing was recently revived as a limited series by MARVEL with R.L. Stine as the series author. In this version, Man Thing was quite "sentient" and, of all things, somewhat funny. More in tone with the R.L. Stine Goosebumps books than the traditional MARVEL treatment of Man Thing.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
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| Posted: 08 January 2018 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 4
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Man Thing was recently revived as a limited series by MARVEL with R.L. Stine as the series author. In this version, Man Thing was quite "sentient" and, of all things, somewhat funny. More in tone with the R.L. Stine Goosebumps books than the traditional MARVEL treatment of Man Thing.••• sigh
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2188
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| Posted: 08 January 2018 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | 5
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Man Thing was recently revived as a limited series by MARVEL with R.L. Stine as the series author. In this version, Man Thing was quite "sentient" and, of all things, somewhat funny. More in tone with the R.L. Stine Goosebumps books than the traditional MARVEL treatment of Man Thing.
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I can't help wondering if that was current Marvel's way of stomping on Steve Gerber's grave since Gerber was very outspoken about Marvel hiring another writer to retell/reboot his original Omega The Unknown series instead of hiring Gerber and Mary Skrenes to write the series. He also pissed Tom Brevoort off over a SPider-Man Team-Up story from the 90's featuring Howard The Duck that unofficially crossed over with (I think) a Savage Dragon/Destroyer Duck comic in which the real Howard the Duck and Beverly left the Marvel Universe at the end of the story and was replaced by a clones. IIRC, Brevoort took real offense to the ending of that story and said that Gerber snuck that last scene in without him knowing about it since he didn't edit or even know what was in the Savage Dragon/Destroyer Duck comic.
Edited by Rick Whiting on 08 January 2018 at 10:56pm
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2292
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| Posted: 09 January 2018 at 12:20am | IP Logged | 6
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They just released MAN-THING collections proudly touting Steve Gerber's name on the cover (even though other writers were involved). Marvel is guilty of a lot of things, but I don't think this is one of them. Unlike Howard, Gerber did not create Man-Thing and plenty of other writers have written him before and since Gerber.
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Rod Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 932
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| Posted: 09 January 2018 at 3:43am | IP Logged | 7
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A mini-series by Gerber called "Infernal Man-Thing" came out in 2012, illustrated by Kevin Nowlan. I think it was an old project that had been gathering dust for twenty years or so, until Nowlan decided to complete it.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4940
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| Posted: 09 January 2018 at 4:04am | IP Logged | 8
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Skateman.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
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| Posted: 09 January 2018 at 11:05am | IP Logged | 9
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All that is really required to "redeem" a lame character is for the writers and artists to take them seriously. Unfortunately, in the past few decades we have seen far too many "creative" teams that started by not taking the characters seriously. Thus we get characters deliberately created to mock the whole concept of superhero comics. Not much to be done there.
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Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13675
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| Posted: 09 January 2018 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 10
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The RL Stine Man-Thing comic was a total travesty.
Really have no idea what was going on there or why.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 09 January 2018 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 11
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*Googles Man-Thing/R.L. Stine*
*Immediately regrets it*
EDIT: Why do that?
My favourite car is a Range Rover. Imagine if I went to work for Rover and said, "I want to make your car into a three-wheeled model. And I'll change this, too." Rover would tell me to piss off and find a job where I can do those things.
Making Man-Thing furry, sentient and communicative misses the point. Why didn't Stine create another character?
What's next, Spider-Man working as a moon cop and shooting laser webs from his eyes?
Edited by Robbie Parry on 09 January 2018 at 3:16pm
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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
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| Posted: 09 January 2018 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 12
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Too often, being able to hold a series is equated to being a viable or successful character. The Atom has always struggled to maintain a series. I don't think this means that there is something inherently wrong with the character. As conceptualized, the Atom or Man-Thing might be limiting for ongoing monthly stories. But, in short doses - one-shots, graphic novels, mini-series, team-up books there can be great stories generated and their presence enriches the overall concept of the shared history to which they belong. This is why I hate it when the companies look at a character whose series has failed as being a failed character and ripe for cannon fodder in the next event storyline.
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