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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6108
Posted: 10 March 2020 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Steve: Again, this isn't a 'gaffe', this is an elderly man who can't handle himself
in a simple discussion with a voter who disagrees with him in a calm and
rational way. This isn't an isolated incident, either. There have been dozens of
these so far in the primary season. Is this acting presidential?

**

This discussion would start with saying this is NOT "an elderly man who can't
handle himself in a simple discussion with a voter who disagrees with him in a
calm and rational way."

But then, having started that way, it hardly seems worth having.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
Posted: 10 March 2020 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

So, you’ve got nothing.  Biden isn’t as bad as Trump.  But is a mass movement of voters going to be motivated to get out the vote for ‘not as bad’?
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4721
Posted: 10 March 2020 at 9:51pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"Biden isn’t as bad as Trump"?? Are you kidding???

Trump can’t tell the truth; never admits he’s wrong. He never apologizes for anything. He’s a bully and attacks anyone who doesn't share his views. He mocked the handicapped & attacked Gold Star families whose children died serving our country. He sides with dictators against his own intelligence agencies. Currently, Trump's incompetence has resulted in nearly 800 cases of coronavirus in over 30 states with 26 dead.... and those numbers are growing.

Right now, Trump is WAY WORSE than Biden. This election won't be won on just on policies... but also bringing intelligence, unity and dignity back to the nation.

-C!



Edited by Charles Valderrama on 10 March 2020 at 9:52pm
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Steve De Young
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Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
Posted: 10 March 2020 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Dignity, right, like cursing at and threatening to physically attack a voter who disagrees with you.  Anybody else remember before the Trump era when that episode alone would have ended Biden's run?  Heck, Howard Dean got knocked out of an election for screaming once at a rally. 

Edited to Add:  I get that you hate Trump.  I do too.  I've been saying for six years that the man is a human stain.  I get it.  But someone has to win an election against him to get rid of him.  And with Biden's erratic behavior and mental lapses, I don't think he's the guy to do it.  Trump's specialty is dragging other people into the mud with him to demotivate the opposition's voters.


Edited by Steve De Young on 10 March 2020 at 10:02pm
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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3655
Posted: 11 March 2020 at 1:06am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I am old enough to remember Michael Dukakis, in one of that cycle's presidential debates, being asked by a CNN anchor - "if Kitty Dukakis (Michael Dukakis's wife) were raped and murdered, would you support the death penalty for her killer.  

In sum, Dukakis said no, but the way he answered the question was like an automaton, completely devoid of feeling and emotion.  For many, he lost the election right then and there.  Whatever your views on the death penalty, when asked a question like THAT, most Americans want your first reaction/answer to be "no, I'd kill the sonovabitch MYSELF!"

Biden thought that he was being accused of something that was not true.  He reacted with passion and emotion - granted, I could have lived without the cursing, but it hardly make it less likely that I will vote for him in November.  

Marc
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14816
Posted: 11 March 2020 at 2:46am | IP Logged | 6 post reply


 QUOTE:
I'm old enough to remember the elections of 2002 and 2004.


 QUOTE:
I'm old enough to remember that the stakes were very different then....


 QUOTE:
 I am old enough to remember Michael Dukakis

From what I've gathered, with the exception of maybe one or two people, the regular posters are at least 40-something or older. So stating that you old enough to remember something post-1985 is just weird flexing.

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Wilson Mui
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Joined: 27 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4526
Posted: 11 March 2020 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Dignity, right, like cursing at and threatening to physically attack a voter
who disagrees with you.

===========

You believe the 77 yr old Biden was really threatening the autoworker
who was probably in his 20s by telling him to step outside? LOL

Edited by Wilson Mui on 11 March 2020 at 6:34am
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Steve De Young
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Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
Posted: 11 March 2020 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I'm talking about the appropriateness of his behavior and his ability to exercise self-control in public.  Which is something we all, myself included, criticize Trump for pretty much every day.
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Mason Meomartini
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Joined: 06 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 174
Posted: 11 March 2020 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

It seems at least some of the same discomfort with having a socialist government also exists in Canada.  I know people who really don't like the NDP leader Jagmeet Singh because they can't stand hearing his Marxist speeches and consider him just another revolutionary leftist talking about taxing the ultra rich.  They feel it's only brought ruin everywhere when that's applied because taxing the rich just breaks businesses, like in the UK in the 70s when the Labour Party raised taxes for the rich.  Companies lost their properties and as a consequence their employees lost their jobs.  It's feared that what's happening in Argentina now for example will happen here if we continue with the Liberals or the NDP:  landowners and business owners go bankrupt and then there's massive unemployment.  Then banks, foreign investors, and transnationals take over and small businesses don't stand a chance.  The other thing that happens is that the rich find other ways to make everyone else pay for their share.  Transnationals and big government take over and that's social democracy.

They think Trudeau is a liberal fool and that Jagmeet Singh is a progressivist project of a tyrant dictator because if he had his own kingdom where he could impose his own rules, we'd see his true nature. Socialists, liberals, progressives, etc., have adopted social democracy. They just disagree about the means to reach their goals. Canada is taken by these factions. They end up stagnating economies with Marxist social democracy ideas. They're using the term "big center", a recent slang to refer to the "center", mostly liberal progressive social fabian democrats. In other words, socialists. They think center is left.

They group communists/socialists/social democrats/fabian socialists/fascists/nazis/dictators/totalitarians/ etc., all together as globalists who have joined forces with banks, corporations, and the financial market.

They know Canada is mainly social democrat already. Liberal social democracy. Total leftist. And they're angry because the people who wrote the basis for this social democracy are bolsheviks (also total leftists). Bolsheviks don't believe in private property and free market. Social democrats, liberal social democrats in this case, also don't believe in private property and free market. But they allow some private property and some free market, controlled by a few big corporations working together with the government. Instead of the property being seized by the "party" as in the USSR and Venezuela, the property is seized by this government-corporate entity. These are the reasons conservatives I know can't stand the NDP and Liberals here or the Democrats in the U.S.




Edited by Mason Meomartini on 11 March 2020 at 6:20pm
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15817
Posted: 11 March 2020 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

You know people. They can't stand this. They feel that. They fear what's happening.

But how do you feel, Mason?

A little social democracy goes a long way, in contrast to unfettered capitalism. When it comes to unfettered capitalism, consider the case of the United Fruit Company, and its behaviour in Latin America during the 20th century. The goals of the capitalist corporation were massively at adds with the wants of the general populace, with the welfare of the environment, with the government and even with its own workers. The corporation existed to make money for itself and would trample on anything in its way. And, paradoxically, the upshot response was often communism.

For example, in Guatemala. A democratically-elected government in Guatemala in the '50s undertook a programme of land reform, expropriating vast tracts of lands and redistributing to the non-land-owning peasant folk. One of the most-affected landowners was the United Fruit Company. What happened? The US government intervened, removing the sovereign government in a CIA-assisted operation. A military junta took control. The labour unions were crushed, the land reforms reversed. Democracy in action!

Communist Cuba germinated from the same seed, though the outcome was different (not for want of trying on the part of the US).

Socialism definitely has a bad name in the US, but I'm sure propaganda plays no part in this.
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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3655
Posted: 11 March 2020 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

For many years I believed that the cries of "communism doesn't work!" emanated from the mouths of die-hard capitalists whose countries had actively worked from day one to make it impossible for a communist state to flourish.  I have since come to believe that communism just doesn't work.  

HOWEVER, I do think there is some truth to my original way of thinking.  When you massively assault communist countries with embargoes, sanctions, travel bans, and punish third-party countries with the same when they dare to deal with them, it is more than a little disingenuous to crow about how "communism doesn't work".  

Marc
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Mason Meomartini
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 06 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 174
Posted: 23 March 2020 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Peter, I don't know enough about this subject to say what I think.  That's why I'm just sharing what I've heard other people saying about it.  I'm interested in everyone's comments.

I keep hearing that socialism leads to social democracy which leads to communism.  I'm interested in whether this is just paranoia or has some truth to it.  Things like Trudeau wanting all news agencies and small outlets to have a government license fuel this perception. The totalitarian dictator wants to censor free speech. His plan was more than socialist, it was bolshevik. Very Sovietish. It's not enough he gives taxpayers' money to the MSM. Now he wants to shut up and shut down opposition. He's using the state to silence the journalist Ezra Levant. That's how it's done today. Not through a bloody coup like in 1917. They do it little by little through social democracy.

Canadians are too soft, too snowflaky, too politically correct, too progressive, too liberal to understand what's happening. Too many Marxist indoctrinators disguised as professors and journalists. The majority of media in Canada is socialist, PC and SJW. Trudeau has just given millions to these news agencies.

Apparently Justin's father Pierre Trudeau supported Mao. Mao was his idol. Canada is now being sold to China with his son as PM.

There are many shades of leftism. Globalists + commies/Chicoms/socialists/totalitarians/organized crime. All Democrats are part of this, not just one who is seen as socialist like Sanders. The Obama administration is considered totalitarian; they tried everything to make Apple disclose their security systems, make it create a backdoor, etc. The excuse was also that it would be to fight crime. Trump, on the other hand, paid a personal visit to Apple to discuss future projects and basically convince the company to stay in the US to save jobs, so conservatives see him as standing up to socialists/communists.










Edited by Mason Meomartini on 23 March 2020 at 7:18pm
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