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Topic: here he goes again part 2 Post Reply | Post New Topic
Jason K Fulton
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Joined: 23 September 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 321
Posted: 21 November 2020 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

For better or worse, I imagine some (most?) writers/artists become trapped by the material that works/sells, to the point that their fanbase rejects anything that's different.
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 122361
Posted: 21 November 2020 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 122361
Posted: 22 November 2020 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

A belated note:

There was no point at which I ever made a “him or me” demand. As I have pointed out many, many times, my leaving the book was mostly precipitated by what I perceived as Chris’ excesses having so soured me on the characters I simply could not work with them any more.

That, and the nervous exhaustion of not being sure carefully plotted scenes and stories would survive Chris’ scripting.

As I have also mentioned many times, Shooter had offered me script approval—being allowed to see and edit Chris’ scripts before they were lettered—but that sounded like a whole lot more aggravation. Plus, I suspected it was really one more attempt by Shooter to widen the gulf between Chris and me.

So, again, there was no point at which I ever wanted to push Chris off the book.

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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 11128
Posted: 22 November 2020 at 8:31am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

"the greatest living comic book writer in existence"?

Debatable, of course, but... way to honor him with some crappy writing.

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Doug Centers
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Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4431
Posted: 22 November 2020 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Right Michael!
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Adam Schulman
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Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1500
Posted: 22 November 2020 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Claremont's relentless dangling plotlines eventually drove me away from his X-MEN. I'm barely familiar with anything else that he's written. I do wonder if I'd like any of it better. 
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James Woodcock
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Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5943
Posted: 23 November 2020 at 12:59am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I know this has moved on a bit, but this one trick pony thing - it just
doesn’t stack up.

Yes, everything he did is eclipsed by the fact he was on X-Men for 17
years, which has to be admitted, is an amazing achievement, but
during those years, & before, & after, he wrote other comics (& even a
few books) as well.

He wrote (to name a few)
Iron Fist
Marvel Team-Up
Captain Britain
Fantastic Four
Aliens Deadliest of the Species
Marada the she-wolf

The main thing, is that, because he was on X-Men for so long, he
obviously focussed on them & their expanding family of comics.
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Sergio Saavedra
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Joined: 13 August 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 437
Posted: 23 November 2020 at 3:47am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I feel identified with this situation of tug-of-war between Claremont and Byrne, because it reminds me  of something that happened to me.
I had a good friend at school who was a very creative person, as was I. Then he moved to a distant part of the country. 

And one day he had a very interesting idea: to make a comic togheter, fifty-fifty. He posted me a sheet with the beginning of the story, only the first half of the sheet. I had to  complete the botton half and draw the first half of the following  sheet, and then post them to him, and so on. 
There was no previous plan, no plot agreed beforehand, we just had to go with the flow (if that's the correct expression in English).
I found the idea very stimulating.

But very soon I realized that he used his parts just to neutralise my ideas and go on with his own plot. Some times he even draw a panel at the end of my part to induce me to channel my story in the direction he wanted. 

It reached a point where it wasn't exciting anymore, it was frustrating and couldn't see the point, so I quit and he finished his story on his own. 

Edited by Sergio Saavedra on 23 November 2020 at 3:58am
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Daniel Burke
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Joined: 10 November 2016
Posts: 77
Posted: 23 November 2020 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I really can't think of much that was created post-issue 143... Rogue, The Brood... not a lot new until Jim Lee came around.

Maybe I oversimplify but its pretty simple to me.

There are a handful of skills needed to create comics. Writing is one, penciling, inking, coloring, lettering among the others. 

Claremont has one of these skills. Byrne has them all. To me, that kinda says it all.
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John Byrne

Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 23 November 2020 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Jack of all trades, master of none!
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Daniel Burke
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Joined: 10 November 2016
Posts: 77
Posted: 23 November 2020 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

And I am sorry but when you are listing "Marada the She Wolf and Aliens Deadliest of Species" as Claremont's other notable runs... the reach is exceeding the grasp... to say the least.  (Nevermind the fact that two of the listed runs were collaborations with JB in their own right!)

That said, I did enjoy Claremont's 30 issues on FF during the Heroes Return era, but probably not entirely for the reasons he intended.  
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 12960
Posted: 23 November 2020 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Re: post-issue 143 and "Rogue, The Brood... not a lot now until Jim Lee"

Of reasonable significance (and created alongside various artists)
He turned Illyana into Magik.
The Morlocks
Betsy Braddock
The Hellions
Mr Sinister
Lockheed the Dragon
Madelyne Pryor

It's strange because rather than accusing Claremont of not creating things, I think ones of his flaw is that he doesn't have restraint when it comes to dreaming up crazy guff. Hence Illyana is a mutant like Colossus. And a sorceress. And rules a dimension called Limbo... And she has a big sword. Which is part of her soul... and armour that grows on her body. And so on. 

Edited by Peter Martin on 23 November 2020 at 10:46am
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