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Michael Todd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 September 2009 Location: United States Posts: 4114
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Posted: 08 June 2011 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 1
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By the way I found this in an old comic book, who knew that Professor X once moonlighted as a Marvel huckster? 
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Keith Thomas Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009 Location: United States Posts: 3082
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Posted: 08 June 2011 at 11:21pm | IP Logged | 2
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By the time I left, X-Men had become a baby juggernaut, and it went on to grow to full maturity in the years that followed. While Dave was drawing the book, as most of you know, sales kept inching up, but he could not handle a monthly grind, and Archie Goodwin, then EiC, knew the book needed to go monthly to turn the corner and get the sales engine really chugging along. That was where I came in, along with Terry Austin. Sales did not explode with our arrival, but they kept climbing steadily, in small increments, and that continued after I left. The real supernova effect kicked in when Paul Smith arrived -- tho, in all honesty, that might have been just a coincidence. Full credit to Smitty, where credit is due, but this was also the same time the speculators started "noticing" the X-MEN. I kind of got lucky in a way in that when I started reading all the Byrne back issues were too expensive for me to buy so I never read them until years later and all I had to compare the current issues (@230) to were the back issues I could afford (@150-200) so the current stuff to me seemed really awesome by comparison. I think by then it was even going bi-weekly for short periods.
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Tim O Neill Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10959
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Posted: 09 June 2011 at 12:13am | IP Logged | 3
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Based on reading my brother's Cockrum and JB issues, the first Uncanny X-Men I bought was #136. So I very much remember the excitement of reading those "Dark Phoenix" issues when they came out, even though I arrived towards the end. For me, I wasn't connected to fanzines or conventions - I didn't know it was an event or unusual for a character to die. It was just the best comic being published at the time, far and away. And with "Days of Future Past" soon after, you just had to be reading that book if you were reading comics. Do people realize how close together in time those two stories were published?
I think "Dark Phoenix" and "Days of Future Past" very much contributed to the success of X-Men even after JB left. The JB back issues were painfully hard to find and expensive when you did, which added to the mystique.
I think that scarcity contributed to the initial success of the trade paperback. It wasn't "wait for the trade" in those days - the trade provided something you just could not get. But I think the trade has stayed a staple on a lot of bookshelves because of the power of #136 and #137. Those two issues are on fire.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 8304
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Posted: 09 June 2011 at 2:01am | IP Logged | 4
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It was definitly the 'Death of Phoenix' that cemented the X-Men in my mind. I had been loving and reading the reprints in Rampage and it had been my favourite comic for a number of years at that point. However, once Rampage had got to Dark Phoenix, that was it, I decided to start buying the American versions. This led to a fun period of hunt the issues down (At that point the issue on the stands was Kitty's fairy tale - 153) and I managed to get all the issues between 137 and 153 over a period of a few months. This was helped by what appeared to be a glut of back issues coming on to the newstands for some unknown reason. A poxy little, local newsagent chain seemed to have bought a load of Marvel back issues and was stocking them. I spent a few days going around every store buyinig up whole swathes of Marvel comics. Got the originals for Dark Phoenix, Days of Future Past part 1 (Had to get 142 and 142 through mail order) and a lot of Cockrum's second run up to 153. Ah, those were good days. edit to add - all those issues were at cover price - 35p for issue 137 16 months after it was published.
Edited by James Woodcock on 09 June 2011 at 2:04am
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16661
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Posted: 26 June 2011 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 5
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I know that people have a natural inclination to be biased toward themselves in talking about past situations, but Jim Shooter does seem to play it like he was an innocent victim of other people's hurt egos, and how he only wanted the best for everyone else. Here are a few select quotes from his latest blog entry, which also mentions JB:
Jim Shooter wrote:
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"...Other than a few over-the-top examples, notably the Doug Moench interview in which he accused me of being responsible for Gene Day's death, as far as I can tell, these are generally the crimes alleged:
1) I gave the creator in question direction. That is, I told him or her what to do, or refused to allow something he or she wanted to do.
2) I wasn't warm and fuzzy enough. I didn't sugar coat things enough. I was "mean."
Well, it was my job to run Marvel's comics publishing operation. I was making decisions that were mine to make. I was giving direction that I was empowered to give. I was the boss. What part of the word "boss" was mysterious to them, I don't know..."
"...Once, in court, in my presence, John Byrne testified on the stand that he had made over ten million dollars working at Marvel. Guess I screwed him good...."
"...I refused to have double standards. No situations like: Artist "A" must redraw the inappropriate scene, but superstar artist "B" is allowed to get away with a similar misrepresentation of a character. It was my job to protect those characters, protect those franchises. The characters and the books came before any superstar and his or her ego..."
"...The truth is I allowed a great deal of creative freedom. Some took advantage of that and did great work. Others just tried to take advantage..." |
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Edited by Matt Hawes on 26 June 2011 at 5:42pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135186
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Posted: 26 June 2011 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | 6
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"...Once, in court, in my presence, John Byrne testified on the stand that he had made over ten million dollars working at Marvel. Guess I screwed him good...."••• I'll have to send Shooter a note asking him to forward to me the checks he must have withheld, then, since that figure in no way tallies with my bank account. Does he owe me interest, do you think? (Anyone who wants to test Shooter's math can do so fairly easily. The Statement of Ownership in the books was usually accurate. The royalty payments were 4% of the cover price, divided among the creative team as 1.5% to the writer, 1.5% to the penciler, and 1% to the inker. An additional 1% was paid to the creators of books, such as on ALPHA FLIGHT. This was paid only after the first 100,000 units sold, so a book that sold, say, 150,000 would pay royalties on 50,000. Royalties started to kick in some time in 1983, as I recall. So, figure out which issues I worked on during the time Shooter was EiC after the royalties arrived, calculate the payments based on the sales, cover price, and jobs I did, and see how close you come to $10,000,000.)
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 13042
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Posted: 26 June 2011 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 7
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This is an interesting Bad-Byrne story that reveals a lot about Jim Shooter.
According to his gospel, JB is either a curmudgeonly Croesus or committed perjury.
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Joe Hollon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 13734
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Posted: 26 June 2011 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 8
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Why was he bringing up how much JB allegedly made at Marvel?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135186
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Posted: 26 June 2011 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 9
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According to his gospel, JB is either a curmudgeonly Croesus or committed perjury.•• The reference would be to the Wolfman lawsuit, in 1999, since that was the only time Shooter and I were ever in a courtroom at the same time. Shooter is perhaps forgetting that "The Comics Journal" printed the transcript of that trial, so it is easy enough to check what was actually said.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135186
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Posted: 26 June 2011 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | 10
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Why was he bringing up how much JB allegedly made at Marvel?•• Shooter likes to promote the myth that it was he, and he alone who brought in royalties -- or "incentives" as they were called at Marvel -- to the comicbook industry. This overlooks two important details: the royalties arrived first at DC, and Mike Hobson, as Shooter's BOSS, was the one who signed off on the policy at Marvel.
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16661
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Posted: 26 June 2011 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 11
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I thought the figure Shooter cited sounded like a LOT of money, especially for that time frame. It didn't seem to be a believable sum to me, even before the information JB has provided for us to calculate.
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Dave Phelps Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4189
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Posted: 26 June 2011 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 12
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Nathan Greno: "...at least "too cute" for me. "Bamf doll"? Nightcrawler has a hot, flight attendant girlfriend? Feels like the concept of the book is lost imho." I dunno, I think one of the things that made the book popular was the playing against type. The strongman being an artist, the "demon" who would rather play at being Errol Flynn than focus on his appearance, etc. It does make me wonder how the book did in the alternate reality where Len Wein never left. From Giant-Size #1, I suspect he would have gone for a less offbeat approach.
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