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Mark Waldman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1272
Posted: 22 June 2023 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 1  

Trump is a simpleton but a corrupt one. His followers even dumber as only an idiot would follow a moron. Before the 2016 election Trump was crying "rigged". He made it clear that if/when he lost, it was rigged. He won. Notice when he won he stopped saying it was rigged?

2020 comes and same playbook. If I lose, it's rigged. A childish, yet brilliant strategy. The sycophants used the same mantra in the mid-terms. In GOP world, if an election occurs and you lose, it must be rigged. Only elections where you win are fair. 

Right wing media looking to stir up a civil war, divide people and make money with angry viewership numbers, promote this illogical concept.

It's not new. Bush stole the election from Gore with a similar scheme. His a bit more sophisticated as he happened to have a brother that could oversee a recount and award a victory.
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John Wickett
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Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 804
Posted: 22 June 2023 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 2  

"National Media" meaning FOX and almost no one else was questioning the integrity of the process."

On 8/05/2020, CNN ran a story about State Assembly Deputy Minority Whip Chris Edwards' fears that the Nevada law authorizing universal mail-in ballots would give rise to ballot harvesting.  

Here are two excerpts from the article (I added the italics):

"Edwards pointed to a provision in the bill that allows authorized persons to deliver absentee ballots on behalf of other voters. This is typically used by older voters who need help filling out and submitting their ballots. But these procedures can be abused by political operatives who improperly collect ballots, change votes, forge signatures, and drop them off to be counted."

Note: This is not a quote of Edwards.  This is CNN addressing his concerns.

And 

"Election experts say there are some risks to voting systems like the one Nevada just adopted, where each registered voter is automatically sent a ballot. This system takes away some of the burden from voters, who don’t have to request their mail ballot. But those steps are important safeguards to ensure that residents are still alive, eligible to vote, and live at the right address"


Having said that, a better choice of wording on my part would have been that people were questioning whether the election was secure against potential fraud (as I said in my original post).  That is what I meant.   And that includes people on both sides of the aisle, politically.  In 2016 Clinton beat Trump in Nevada by less than 3%.  In 2020 most people thought the election could go either way.  The local news channels who were running stories about unsecured discarded ballots were not biased.

After the election, obviously it was conservatives who suggested election fraud actually occurred, but many of the people repeating that line were people who had questions about election security in August.  If the state had done a better job responding to their concerns prior to the election, maybe fewer people would have been taken in by Trump's accusations.


Edited by John Wickett on 22 June 2023 at 3:15pm
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3135
Posted: 22 June 2023 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 3  

 John Wickett wrote:
a better choice of wording on my part would have been that people were questioning whether the election was secure against potential fraud

Right, but that 'questioning' for the most part was bad faith political strategizing.  Like it's pretty clear that Trump (who also uses the generalized and therefore unprovable term 'people') was beating the drum about how mail-in votes were guaranteed to generate fraud and electronic machines were hackable.  The former is an extension of the general (up to that point) strategy/belief of the GOP that higher voter turnout is bad for them, so therefore anything that makes it easier for people to vote eats into the GOP's strengths.  For a bit, it looked like they were reversing course on this since it's clear that a majority of people would prefer to have an easier time voting, but I dunno - the GOPs current strategy regarding voting rights is stochastic, to say the least.

As far as Trump's assertion and the ongoing bullshit peddling about the reliability of electronic voting machines, that's literally just about delegitimizing Biden's win (and down the line).  And one or a handful of stories on a non-Fox platform is a statistical non-event - I don't see CNN having to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars for a constant pattern of disinformation on the subject.
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John Wickett
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Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 804
Posted: 22 June 2023 at 7:02pm | IP Logged | 4  

"As far as Trump's assertion...about the reliability of electronic voting machines...one or a handful of stories on a non-Fox platform is a statistical non-event - I don't see CNN having to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars for a constant pattern of disinformation on the subject."

Agreed. If you read my posts, I never mentioned voting machines.  That's not something people were worried about in Nevada. Nevada has had electronic voting machines at least since the early 90s (when I started voting) and it's never been a problem.  

People were concerned that switching to 100% mail-in voting three months before the election would create opportunities for ballot harvesting and fraud, because bad actors could gain access to ballots they would not normally have.  

National and local media seemingly confirmed those possibilities.

After the election, Trump and his surrogates claimed they possessed hard evidence that fraud occurred, which played on people's pre-existing concerns.

For the most part those concerns dissipated after Trump's claims were disproven in court, but there is still a vocal minority among conservatives who claim the election was stolen.





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Mitch Denoyer
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Posts: 131
Posted: 22 June 2023 at 9:40pm | IP Logged | 5  

 Before the 2016 election Trump was crying "rigged". He made it clear that if/when he lost, it was rigged. He won. Notice when he won he stopped saying it was rigged?”
=================
That statement isn’t exactly true.  He shifted his “rigged election” false narrative to a claim that he lost the popular vote because it was “rigged.” Dumb Donald was the consummate sore winner.
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Rebecca Jansen
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Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4495
Posted: 22 June 2023 at 9:55pm | IP Logged | 6  

I remember Trump telling his supporters to vote for him twice before the 2020 vote... was it meant to be a 'funny', or maybe he expected enough to do that for there to be widespread 'concerns'? In fact when one of the minuscule number of multiple votes discovered was investigated it was a Trump voter using his recently deceased wife's ballot to vote a second time for Trump!

Now Republicans in Congress are reviving their calls to impeach Biden. This after they censured a Dem leader simply for asking questions they don't like of their investigator into Mueller (Dems stood and chanted Shame Shame Shame). Who wanted yet more of this crap? Maybe people who want to take down their own nation along with themselves out of spite/anger and 'saving' some fetus somewhere? They've been choking on conspiracy nonsense and outrage since Limbaugh started the whole America Held Hostage 'entertainment' when Bill C. was in office, and grandiose apocalyptic white religious 'visions' before that. Democracy vs. crazy, stupid, and lied-to voters?

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 22 June 2023 at 9:58pm
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Michael Casselman
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Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1217
Posted: 23 June 2023 at 1:28am | IP Logged | 7  

For years the consummate jokey-statement to combat voter dissatisfaction (regardless of affiliation) was 'Vote early... and vote often!" 
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1734
Posted: 23 June 2023 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | 8  

And Chicago was notorious for, shall we say, voting irregularities
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Mark Waldman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1272
Posted: 23 June 2023 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 9  

He also had the biggest crowd ever for his inauguration. The same massive crowd showed up in Florida to support him at his indictment.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132234
Posted: 23 June 2023 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 10  

Y’know, I have been giving serious thought to declaring the JBF a Trumf-Free zone. No more threads about the Orange Oval.
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Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5458
Posted: 23 June 2023 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 11  

Thumbs up emoji!!
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2174
Posted: 23 June 2023 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 12  

I get plenty of him elsewhere.  It's a bit demoralizing to see him in online places I like to hang out, so no objection from me. I've even tried to craft my Twitter experience to be just space stuff, fantasy art, comics, science and cats.

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