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Rebecca Jansen
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Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4331
Posted: 07 February 2023 at 5:54am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I suppose as he did do so many Fantastic Fours it seems more a shame not to see Kirby on The Avengers in the '70s, although maybe then we wouldn't have had Perez... nooo! Plus it would probably have been something like the later ones he did without many new characters.

I liked his Machine Man (as well as Ditko's), and Devil Dinosaur. I've tried to warm up to The Eternals but I think I liked their crossovers in the Avengers more than their own book. The Inhumans another Kirby creation were also great guest stars but their own titles seemed to get into a rut usually of Mad Maximus staging another coup (still I do have all their '70s solo title and a later one-shot, whereas I only have two one-shots of The Eternals).

I guess Foom #11 should be mentioned here as it appeared in the '70s? A special King Kirby issue with a cover by our host!
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Eric Jansen
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Joined: 27 October 2013
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Posted: 07 February 2023 at 11:29am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

"CAPTAIN AMERICA and the Black Panther in JUNGLE ACTION had great runs end abruptly when Kirby took over."
____________________

I don't mean to argue, but I do not remember it that way.  I came in on the tail end of the fantastic Steve Engehart/Sal Buscema run on CAPTAIN AMERICA and I was very sad when Sal then Steve left the series.  (And Englehart did not leave on a high note, instead just opening up a can of worms with the whole "Snap" Wilson thing and leaving others to deal with it--a very misguided "everything you know is wrong" debacle that took decades to fix.)  And then for the next year, we had no less than four writers doing my least favorite work of their careers.  Frank Robbins did most of the art in that time, which (after falling in love with Sal Buscema's clean lines and storytelling) I did not care for.  But, if you missed him, Robbins immediately moved over to drawing Cap regularly in INVADERS--which I DID love!  (Go figure.)

Either way, CAPTAIN AMERICA was a big mess by the time Jack Kirby came in as writer/artist for the next two years and saved it--and gave us probably my favorite of all his solo work...just in time for the Bicentennial!  (It was a bit of a mess after Kirby left too.  Thank goodness Sal Buscema eventually came back, especially when he was finally joined by writer Roger McKenzie.)


Edited by Eric Jansen on 07 February 2023 at 11:07pm
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
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Posted: 07 February 2023 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 Eric Jansen wrote:
Either way, CAPTAIN AMERICA was a big mess by the time Jack Kirby came in as writer/artist for the next two years and saved it
One instance in which Kirby's lack of interest in the external Marvel universe continuity worked really well was his handling of the Falcon.  As you noted, Englehart introduced the extremely ill-conceived Snap Wilson backstory for the Falcon.  In his short run that followed, Tony Isabella felt like he had to acknowledge it.  But when Kirby took over, he just... ignored it. Ignored it completely.  He wrote the Falcon as though he was the same guy he'd been before the Snap Wilson retcon, and he never mentioned that retcon. 
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Eric Jansen
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Joined: 27 October 2013
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Posted: 07 February 2023 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Yes, best to ignore that.  I think, after the movies, the whole "Snap" thing was undone in the comics anyhow.

I usually like Steve Englehart very much, but this was such a misstep.  I have often wondered, if he had stayed on the title, if he had a better plan for resolving that whole thing.

This might have been the first major "Everything you know is wrong" storyline, which has been done to death in recent years--an amateurish, disruptive, hollow, lazy way to write.  I hate this approach, but I suppose the first one or two probably astounded people.  I also hate big crossovers, and Englehart did the first big one with the "Avengers/Defenders War"--again, people probably loved the first one.


Edited by Eric Jansen on 07 February 2023 at 11:18pm
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 08 February 2023 at 12:21am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

A couple of latter-day Hercules covers...

MARVEL PREMIERE #26 by Jack Kirby & Vince Colletta
A reunion of THOR artists Kirby and Colletta on their version of the Greek God.

CHAMPIONS #6 by Jack Kirby & Frank Giacoia
Another Hercules-centric cover, with Kirby revisiting old friends Angel and Iceman too.  His first Black Widow?

Before Steve Ditko brought in Dr. Strange, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby introduced their own Marvel mystic master DR. DROOM...who did not take off.  At some point, he was reintroduced as "Dr. Druid" and his "edited" early adventures were reprinted in this reprint anthology series, with new covers...two of them by Kirby himself.

WEIRD WONDER TALES #19 by Jack Kirby & John Verpoorten
Very powerful and dynamic--totally different kind of cover than we would have seen with DR. STRANGE.

WEIRD WONDER TALES #20 by Jack Kirby & Joe Sinnott
Again, I would have liked to have seen at least a mini-series with this version of Dr. Druid.



Edited by Eric Jansen on 08 February 2023 at 12:22am
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 09 February 2023 at 12:12am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Of course, it was wonderful to see Jack Kirby return to FANTASTIC FOUR in the 70's, even if it was just for the covers.  Especially fun was seeing his take on guest stars.

FANTASTIC FOUR # by Jack Kirby & Joe Sinnott
I suppose it was retconned later, but I really enjoyed this return of Marvel Boy as the crazed Crusader, starting with this powerful cover.

FANTASTIC FOUR #176 by Jack Kirby & Joe Sinnott (with John Romita)
I know he'd drawn him before, but Kirby's take on the Impossible Man here is one of the most "grabbing" covers I've ever seen!

FANTASTIC FOUR #180 by Jack Kirby & Joe Sinnott (with Marie Severin)
A fun "alternate" Fantastic Four.  Once again, I like his take on Tigra and Impossible Man, and I would definitely like to have seen more Kirby Thundra!

FANTASTIC FOUR #200 by Jack Kirby & Joe Sinnott
At the time (I was 12), I found it strange that a big 200th issue of a team book would show only one member of that team!  Now, I find this to be a really strong, effective cover.  The 60-year subplot of FANTASTIC FOUR is the rivalry between Reed and Doom--they deserve at least one cover just the two of them!
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Colin Ian Campbell
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Joined: 24 April 2015
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Posted: 09 February 2023 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

AVENGERS #152 by Jack Kirby & Dick Ayers
*
GCD credits the inking to Ayers, but I wonder if "DA" could have been Dan Adkins, who had inked the previous issue's cover.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
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Posted: 10 February 2023 at 4:07am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Good catch on that, Colin.  The cover of Avengers #152 could not have been inked by Dick Ayers, as he was essentially "fired" from Marvel in 1975 (they stopped giving him work).  I'm going to submit a correction to GCD. 
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Dave Kopperman
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Joined: 27 December 2004
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Posted: 10 February 2023 at 5:42am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Was Kirby ever inked by any of the really notable heavy handed inkers of the era (not intending that as a perjorative since I genuinely love these guys, just a little too brain fried to come up with a neutral term right now): Tom Palmer, Alfredo Alcala, Klaus Janson, maybe Akin & Garvey?
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Colin Ian Campbell
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Joined: 24 April 2015
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Posted: 10 February 2023 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Klaus Janson inked the cover of Defenders #42, which was posted earlier in this thread.
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Eric Jansen
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Joined: 27 October 2013
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Posted: 10 February 2023 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Another newer character Kirby graced with cover art was Nova, nice and effective.  Kirby's "squiggles" always seemed more appropriate for more metallic outfits.

NOVA #4 by Jack Kirby & Joe Sinnott
And, of course, a nice guest shot of Thor!  (More than a few covers by Kirby in the 70's guest-starred The Hulk or Thor!)

NOVA #5 by Jack Kirby & Frank Giacoia

NOVA #7 by Jack Kirby & Joe Sinnott
Hmm...I don't remember what happens inside, but it's a bit curious that a story called "War in Space" should have a New York-based cover.

MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE #12 by Jack Kirby & Frank Giacoia
And one more--another metallic costume!
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 131932
Posted: 10 February 2023 at 1:27pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

What do we suppose it was like for Kirby, working from sketches provided by other artists? Basically, reduced to “art robot” at the company he helped create.
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