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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 1
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I thought that it was an accelerated heartbeat -- anything but staying calm -- that would trigger the change. The voice-over for the Hulk TV series spoke of becoming "angry or outraged".
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It's varied over the years. Some writers have written it as though Banner needs to reach a certain heartrate (from getting excited, angry, fearful, running too fast, or whatever) in order to change. Others have said that Banner specifically has to get angry (or fearful), as though the emotion itself causes the transformation.
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Steve Horton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 2
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So the Man-Thing would get pretty upset around Banner in mid-change!
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Ed Deans
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 763
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | 3
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QUOTE:
| I don't think this indicates anything, other than Shooter was being careful, as Keith says. |
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Over the weekend, I was reading through the 190's of "Uncanny X-Men" from 1984. Chris Claremont, writer, Jim Shooter was editor-in-chief and Ann Nocenti, title editor. I was stunned by Kitty Pryde in issue #196, a comics code approved issue.
Phil, as it happens, is part of a plot to kill Prof. Xavier.
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Daniel Kendrick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 4
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In the Northstar "recruitment story" there is
mention to his "radical politics past"...or something. What was he, a
Quebec separationist? Has this tale ever been told?
Marvel Fanfare #28. Story not by JB so take it at face value. Villain goes around killing members of Northstar's terrorist cell.
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 5
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On Ed Deans' post:
Wow. How did that see print.
Edited by David Ferguson on 10 September 2007 at 3:51pm
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Glenn Greenberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6746
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | 6
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I interviewed Jim Shooter recently about the Hulk story in question.
His comments will appear in an upcoming issue of BACK ISSUE magazine, in
an article about the old RAMPAGING HULK series.
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Ed Deans
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 763
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 7
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Jesus Garcia wrote:
| Problem with homesexuals as represented in many mediums is that it's
all about their sex lives ... as if homosexuality is a form of
religious orthodoxy ... as if gay and lesbians spend 90% of their time
thinking about sex. |
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This is often a complaint I see from gays and lesbians about their portrayal in various media. I often read the "who happens to be gay" phrase as a means of expressing discontent over being characterized as one-dimensional rather than well-rounded characters with many interests or qualities. In comics dating is an expression of a character's sexuality. It has been part of most superheroes' lives.
Peter dated Gwen, MJ, the Black Cat and others. I remember Clark on a date with Lois perhaps as early as his first appearance and Bruce debuted with a fiancée. Scott and Jean had an intense romance. Kitty had a crush on Peter. Aurora was taken with Walter. Reed and Sue married, later becoming parents. Marina and Namor. Heather and Mac. Wonder Woman had Steve Trevor while Dr. Banner had Betty Ross.
I struggle to think of childhood favorites who did not have love affairs with the opposite sex. As a kid, I did not "get" that Northstar's house mate (Rene?) was anything other than a friend sharing living quarters.
Much debate is made about whether homosexual's existence should be revealed to children and, if so, what what time and in what context is this is appropriate.
Most of mainstream comic and children's fiction has been uniformly heterosexual and thus an enforcement of that viewpoint at the exclusion of readers who might have different life experience. Readers might have a gay or lesbian family member or be discovering him or herself as a member of that minority. Unlike readers from a uniformly heterosexual world experience, these readers must settle for "have you tried not being a mutant" allegories.
I don't know the answers to when, how or if same-sex interests should be part of all-ages comics but I think a clever writer, as I believe John Byrne was with his Northstar portrayal, can thread the needle as we wrestle with these questions as a society.
edited: clarified point about gay portrayals.
Edited by Ed Deans on 10 September 2007 at 4:32pm
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4946
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 8
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John Byrne wrote:
| Somewhere between 6 and 10%. |
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According to Statistics Canada, the actual number is about 1%. Here is a clip from their site. From a quick search online, it seems that the higher percentage comes from the Kinsey studies and has just been taken to be correct, even though the data now seems to support a lower percentage.
CCHS Cycle 2.1 is the first Statistics Canada survey to include a
question on sexual orientation. This information is needed to
understand differences in health-related issues between the homosexual
(gay or lesbian), bisexual and heterosexual populations. These issues
include determinants of health, such as physical activity, mental
health issues, including stress, and problems accessing health care.
Among Canadians aged 18 to 59, 1.0% reported that they consider
themselves to be homosexual and 0.7% considered themselves bisexual.
About 1.3% of men considered themselves homosexual, about twice the
proportion of 0.7% among women. However, 0.9% of women reported being
bisexual, slightly higher than the proportion of 0.6% among men. There are no comparable Canadian data on sexual orientation. The
results are similar to those obtained in the United States using the
concept of identity.
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14190
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | 9
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1% seems awfully low. The problems with studies like that is that some of the participants are not being honest. Even today, plenty of gay people will not admit openly about their sexual orientation. I've never taken a poll on the folks I know or interact with, but 6-10% seems about right. I wouldn't be surprised if it were a little higher.
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Martin Redmond
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006
Posts: 3882
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 10
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I don't know about the Hulk thing since I haven't read it, but I'm of the opinion if you don't want to show minorities under a favorable light ever, then don't cast them under a negative one either. At least give the impression that you are impartial.
I know one artist annoys me because he always draws thugs as black people. And if there's a chick, she's black, butch & lesbian wanting to molest the rich white victim girl. I mean, those scenarios happen in real life, probably, and they're wrongful crimes, but it's just hurgh! Don't put that in your comics please.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4946
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 11
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The problem with your statement is that you are basing it on a feeling, instead of scientific data. It might be higher, but there is no good data that proves the higher percentage. How do they know that people are not being honest? You can't just say that in order to discredit the results.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133571
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| Posted: 10 September 2007 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 12
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I was reminded of an episode of E.R. when Mark Greene was attack in the rest room. It happened so suddenly for him and unexpectedly that he didn't have time to do anything. In later episodes he felt anger and shame for not defending himself.••• There is a great deal of difference between something happening so fast a person cannot consciously react to it, and the unconscious reaction of their bodies. If you have ever been startled, had someone sneak up or jump out and shout "BOO!" (or some equivalent), you know you don't even have to be fully aware of what's happened before you find your heart beating much faster. This is a flight response programed into all of us by a billion years of evolution. There is no imaginable scenario in which a human being could be "so scared" that their heart rate doesn't increase. Well, one. If they were literally scared to death, their heart would stop. But that's not what we're talking about here. For twenty five years, or thereabouts, we had seen Bruce Banner turn into the Hulk in stressful situations. In less enlightened times, we even saw him popping tranquilizers like Tic-Tacs in order to "stay calm". That didn't suit Shooter's scenario, so he ignored it. As I said, he forced the character to fit his story, instead of shaping his story to the character.
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